Say What?
Posted: October 9, 2009 Filed under: Life | Tags: electra complex, freud, jung, penis envy, psychiatry, therapy, women who hate women 80 Comments
A friend of mine made a reference to an Electra Complex so I looked it up. Wikipedia says:
According to Freud, a girl, like a boy, is originally attached to the mother figure. However, during the phallic stage, when she discovers that she lacks a penis, she becomes libidinally attached to the father figure, and imagines that she will become pregnant by him, all the while becoming more hostile toward her mother. Freud attributes the character of this developmental stage in girls to the idea of “penis envy“, where a girl is envious of the male penis. According to the theory, this penis envy leads to resentment towards the mother figure, who is believed to have caused the girl’s “castration.” The hostility towards the mother is then later revoked for fear of losing the mother’s love, and the mother becomes internalized, much the same as the Oedipus complex.
So I questioned my friend who has more training in this area than I do, and they told me:
In a nutshell: a woman with an “electra complex” is a person who has real resentment issues with certain other woman going back to an emotionally imprinted idea that her father was stolen from her by her mother.
So to you my dear blog readers, I say:
Come, lay on my couch and tell me: How does this make you feel?
Claire Collins 
And Dave, knowing your background, please leave me a response plain enough that I can understand it. Remember that I am traumatized for the rest of my life for losing my penis.
Hey you told him to dumb down…not me :P. I’ll explain later in simpler words.
Here’s a psychological response for you… You’re adopted.
That explains why I don’t look like Molly Ringwald. Thanks!
Hey, I was going to use that on Suzette’s blog but I thought better of it…but now 🙂
Go for it Loon. 😆
Well…
I’ll start at the beginning.
In my younger days as a girl, I often wondered about what it would be like to be a man. Or at least a boy.
Wait a minute… that’s not my life story. That’s just standard boilerplate for South African sprinter bios.
Let’s do this again.
As a member of the male sex for over 30 years, let me just say this: who the hell knows what women are thinking? The real secret was finding out some way to get them to pay $125/hr. to talk about themselves, leaving you (the shrink) to ponder other things like fish or the NCAA Final Four brackets.
Now, as to the issue of Electra and her missing penis: people always say men marry their moms and women marry their dads. This makes nearly every marriage an uncomfortable form of vicarious inbreeding.
You watch your little vicarious deformities grow up and continue on the proud tradition of marrying various mother and father analogues until you come to the conclusion that either a.) this whole marrying mom/dad thing is bullshit or b.) that the Bible is right and we all came from one set of original parents who we all have been trying to hook up with (again, vicariously) for over 5,000 years.
To sum up:
That’s right we can all blame the Garden of Eden and Eve. See I’m not a product of my parents but the vicious 5000 year cycle. I’m not to blame for my own problems–nope.
On a side note. My 8th grade teacher could have been the red head in this group-and I’m not talking an impersonator. I’m talking identical. Lots of guys wanted her class, wonder why? hummm
She had penis envy?
Have you heard of the Freudian relationship book “Men are from Mars (Women want a Penis”?
I’ve heard enough of Freud to last me a lifetime.
Professor Soooper Genius.
1. I like fish.
2. My husband is nothing like my Dad. Therefore, I choose the bullshit answer.
3. Thank you for the music! Next time, bring me a penis, ok? I seem to have lost mine.
Penis envy was thought up by a man that was not in his right mind, to give his id a phallic boost. When all men know deep down that women have the power not the flesh between their legs. If everything related back to the ownership and worship of a penis, then all men would be gay. Women would never be ogled. There would be no breast implants nor the men who love them.
If anyone related themselves or anyone they knew to an Electra Complex, they have more issues than dear Dr. Freud. While you can actually say that women have issues with their mother that seems from parenting versus being a teenager. Mothers want their children to be safe and being a woman they are harder on daughters than sons. They normally forget or can’t relate to the changes in society and push their values on daughters where those values no longer are a norm.
As far as anything sexual toward a parent be it, Electra or Oedipus, would negate the need for incest laws. Anyone who has sexual thoughts toward a parent, or a child for that matter, needs psychiatric help—along with those that believe people actually suffer from these complexes.
As far as women having issues with other women, as long as there is a clear picture of who is the dominate female–much like leader of the pack for men which they normally show by feats of strength and prowess–then there is no territorial feuds which women determine with attitude, clothes, and—much like their male counter parts—prowess.
If you say so.
The last few times that I lent Carmen Electra my penis she A) kept it until I had to come around asking for it back, and B) returned it in piss-poor condition. It was dirty, smelly, and worn down. So I no longer lend out my penis to just any beautiful, but useless, B-list celebrity. Lesson learned. Now if I could just get my sphincter back off of Dennis Rodman, I’d be intact.
Having studied psychology for two years I’ve come to the conclusion that 80% of it is complete horseshit. And Freud was fuller of cocaine tainted shit than anyone. I’ve found that you must simply accept the past, and let it go wholly and completely. Dwelling on it, talking about it, and analyzing it just drags you down further. The only reality, the only thing you have any control over is happening right at this moment. Every second that you spend in the past, is a wasted moment.
But that’s just my never humble opinion!
Only loan your penis to porn stars.
As for Dennis: You’re never going to see that thing again. Or your sphincter either.
And for the past: Been there, done that, and don’t want to go there again.
I never got over penis envy. My bad. It must be a total mind f*** for girls with lesbian parents. Who do they envy ? Maybe they are simply well adjusted! I think I might send Dr Phil a line.
Or they may be even more messed up since they can’t pretend they’re being impregnated by their father.
Boy, life sucks! Whoopsie is that Freudian too?
It would’ve been an even worse slip if you said Life sucks boy!
I always thought penis envy was between guys. So, what do they say about about vagina envy? Is there such a thing, or is it all about the breasts?
I thought it was between guys too. Who knew that we suffered from the affliction as well? Oh that’s right, Freud.
Must be about the breasts since so many women get implants. Of course in Freuds time, women were totally inferior and simply an object to channel his own perverted sexual frustrations.
Funny, I used “vagina tease” last week. A gay friend of mine has this woman hanging off him. He hasn’t told her he is gay, basically because she cleans his house, cooks and runs errands. I told him he was a vagina tease, he saw it as “if the woman hasn’t worked out I’m gay, is it my fault?” Dumbass.
She must be a dumbass. Even if he wasn’t gay, why is she cleaning his house, cooking for him, or running errands for him unless she’s his mommy? I’m a mommy and I wouldn’t do any of that either. Dumbass.
Claire’s best Red Forman impression.
Dumbass!
That’s the most sense that I’ve ever read in a blog post.
In fact, I was saying pretty much the same thing to the wife’s sister in bed this morning.
Yeah like you really want two Mrs. N’s telling you what to do.
Good point.
What kind of penis envy did Freud call it when you can’t imagine being able to stand a at urinal hands free and pee without soiling your pants?
I don’t know. I don’t want to imagine it either. But I do want to know something: Are you bragging?
No…I have that kind of envy.
You just totally smashed all of my fantasies about you. And I thought bears were hung like… well.. bears?
It makes me crave a footlong chili cheese dog. Is that wrong?
Nothing is ever wrong on my couch. Let me know when you start craving eggs.
I’m craving eggs. Is that bad?
It’s obviously because your mother didn’t keep you in the nest long enough and your father was a big Cock. You have a strange desire to return to the safety of the egg or to rejoin your mother. You also have an unnatural attraction to chicks which can’t be explained.
What help is there for me? Can I be saved?
Everyone can be saved. In your case, I suggest several sessions on my couch. When we solve the question of which came first, the rooster or the egg, then you will be cured.
So you’re saying I’ll never be cured… great.
LOSTL! I dont understand any of that. Its a good thing im an Actor and not a Psychiatrist!
Good to read your blob again, Claire! Keep at it!
Bob
Bob on my Blob.. Bob on my Blob. Hahaha.. I kinda like that. There’s gotta be something Freudian in there too.
Bob, I’m glad you’re an actor and not a psychiatrist too. But feel free to come visit my couch if you need to.
Okay…
I’m just gonna go sit over by the window here, and look at all the pretty flowers.
Because sometimes, learning even more about the opposite sex simply isn’t worth it (and believe me, after working in departments that are 98% female for the past 5 1/2 years, I’ve heard it all).
G. You may be the smartest man in Blogland.
I am more agitated than envious of my penis. I lug him around all day and he does nothing. (Probably about 10 pounds of dead weight). When I speak to him, he does not speak back. If I try to be kind and stroke him, he spits on me. Sometimes I wish I had married Lorena Bobbitt.
We should probably schedule another session.
I think you may need many many sessions. How long have you been delusional?
And if you aren’t delusional… prove it.
The whole topic disturbs me. I keep getting reminded of all the men who have died from erectile erection drugs because they wanted to be like me. 😦
You’re hard headed, but I think you’re thinking of the wrong head.
Which is abnormal.
Since most men thing WITH the wrong head, and not OF the wrong head.
Fair’s fair, Claire…
Oedipus for boys. Electra for girls. Although, being the odd circus freak that I am, I suffer from both. It’s known as “Electrapus.”
FYI: This is no connection to the famous Saturday morning cartoon of the late 1960’s “Electrapus and Pals!”
Alan, Thank you for straightening this out for me. It’s even more sexist than I thought. It’s like pink for girls and blue for boys? Since you’re mostly dog, wouldn’t you actually be suffering from “Electrapups”?
i’m not sure that penis envy leads to resentment towards the mother, perhaps it’s all the nagging and humiliation throughtout middle school? that freud was probablly hitting some strange brew!
Actually it was Viennese Bugger Sugar and not any form of ‘Brew.” 🙂
I just don’t think he liked his mommy very much. Of course, anything wrong in his life would be her fault since she IS the mommy, right?
Well Claire, it seems you have got some conversation here … if you can call it that! As for me, I’m just going to cut my losses, quiting before I get shredded by the fem contingent and out lied by the male.
You don’t want to play, Bill?
I’m sensing some deeply hidden issues. We’ll schedule a few more sessions on the couch.
I have had enough of the “couch thing” to last a life time. Having spent six years, before “they” came to their senses, working in “community mental health,” and thus having experienced both sides of the couch, I am sceptle of the whole couch thing! 🙂
I think couches have so many other uses. I’ve never spent any time on either side of the couch. I think I’m pretty well rounded. But I’ve been wrong before.
I once knew this blogger who had a blog. (Most do, otherwise what’s the point?)
It was a good blog and everybody seemed to like it. There were some great posts and great conversations in those posts.
Then things would get quiet at random times. Sometimes there would be a lot of activity and other times nothing would happen for days. It was weird, but somewhat understandable.
So I would come to this blog and wonder what was going on elsewhere that made it so quiet here.
I thought, “Maybe this blogger has too much to take care of outside this blog, and will be back sometime in the nearest whatever.”
Sometimes I thought, “Maybe this blogger has a secretive double life and has to go do spy stuff like assassinations or blowing shit up for a black ops unit that can never be officially recognized by the US government.”
Sometimes I thought, “Maybe this is just a time differential issue being that this blogger lives in one of the freak states that won’t celebrate the grand American tradition of changing our clocks forwards and backwards at regular intervals.”
Sometimes I thought, “Maybe this bloggerwas detained by Homeland Security for refusing to properly align their clock with the rest of the nation.”
Sometimes I thought, “Maybe this is like my ‘weekend dad’ who has to spend a lot of time on ‘business trips’ that last 60-90 days at a time (this one time it was 3-5 years!) and other times can’t really leave the house so I have to go visit him at his place, where I got to meet his roommate who is a policeman.”
Sometimes I thought, “Speculating is fun! But also dangerous. Let’s not forget what happened to our oil prices and house prices and (apparently) our milk prices. Let’s go see what’s going on at Intrade.”
Sometimes I thought, “Sleep. That’s what’s missing in this equation. I should run this by the guys over at the Hadron Collider.”
Sometimes I thought, “I’ll just ride it out. Like those cabin-dwellers on Mt. St. Helens. They sure told those evacuation sqauds where they could shove it.”
In conclusion, when I grow up, I want to be a mysterious blogger.
Questions:
1) Did you grow up?
2) And if so, did you become a mysterious blogger>
No. And yes. Respectively.
I concur
CLT,
The spy thing was a secret.
The operative word is “was.” Good luck with the thrilling chase scene that is now your life, Bourne. Liz Claire Bourne.
Ha!You’re still our best operative Codename: Professor. Your mission is to continue to relay secret messages through your blog.
LCB Out.
It makes me feel as if I’d rather be talking about fish.
Pat, I’m with you. I’d rather be talking TO the fish since they don’t argue or talk back. They just sit there making these cute little fishy kissy faces. They don’t judge.
And by the way everyone, Pat’s having a party at her place because she just released a new boo. She’s got games and everything:
http://ptbertram.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/daughter-am-i-has-finally-been-published-lets-party/
Freud is pretty much an interesting starting point for psychology, but he is still full of poop…especially when it come to women.
FJ,
You’re wonderful and I’m so glad to see you coming to visit. It’s been too long. As for Freud, I think he could have learned a thing or two from modern men.
Modern Man is dead … we must be up to post-postmdern man by now!
Modern man is dead? No one told me. I loved Modern man. Sensitive to women while still being a real man. Able to change a diaper, hold down a job, wash the dishes and still watch football.
As a former therapist, I can say I don’t like lying on the couch and would much rather watch fish (I know – it’s like a dentist having bad teeth). But when I’m in real trouble, the fish don’t help much, so I suck it up, take off my shoes and put my head on the pillow.
So Pamela, Seriously – Should I have been flattered or insulted?
My take is neither – it’s meaningless – such an old theory. So FJ nailed it.
Thanks Pamela! I thought he nailed it too, but it’s nice to hear more opinions. Especailly when they agree with me.
Just logging in to say will be back to read this in depth when have unpacked etc.
First reaction, oh dear, which edgit brought up Ziggy?
dave
Oh my dear Dave, Please hurry back because I really do want your opinion on this topic. While I wait, I’m going to post a new blog but I’m going to keep coming back to visit while I wait for your thoughts. A friend of mine brought up Ziggy and we had an indepth conversation about it.
Oh well, here goes, this may turn into the rant of the week?
My credentials to comment, apart from the invitation up top; psychiatrist for 25 years, trained in 2 different psychotherapy techniques but made extensive use of prescription psychotropic drugs, both personally and to punters…
Ziggy was a product of his peculiar times, a Jew in the late 1800’s in Europe. His religion and cultural experiences gave him a very unique view of this world, what could be called a ghetto in the fullest meaning of the word.
His incredibly detailed case reports of about half a dozen clients led to a grand theory of personality formulation that caught the mood of the time as it was near totally focussed on sex, then the greatest taboo subject in polite society. The chattering classes of all religions and places could gabble on about his theories in company, sex could be talked about, openly whether you believed or ridiculed his ideas.
Subsequently, in the last 100 years or so (FFS, I was there for the last quarter of it, 25%…) many dozens of other theoretical styles of personality development and consequent talking therapy have been postulated; the vast majority originating in USofA. Each has zealot adherents who only believe in their way and totally reject any other approach.
Now, if there are so many, over 300 odd last I counted, and wildy different schools of personality development/talking therapy, what does this mean? Firstly, none of them have got the full answer. Secondly, the human mind is so complex that simplistic manmade classifications are at very best a gross, crude and incomplete system.
A telling piece of research from about 15 years ago (I can try and find it if folk really want to know) used trained dummy clients who went to different therapists from the major ‘schools’ and video’d the sessions and rated different parameters. In summary, those therapists providing the most benefit showed 1) attention to the ‘clients’ problem, 2) unconditional support and 3) inter-personal warmth. The theoretical basis of each contact only mattered to the therapist, NOT THE SUFFERING PUNTER!
So, if Frued accepted that penis problems were the root of all that matters (circumcised Jew remember) then providing he offered the above critical elements in therapy, his clients benefitted for these other reasons. He didn’t. That’s why he saw each case so intensly, hours each week for years, because he did not offer either 2 or 3 from above. (and think of the profit margin on this, godzillions of wodge for doing SFA!)
Freud acted as the stimulus to the now huge industry of ‘talking therapy’, especially as the first prescribable psychotropic drugs didn’t come on line until the mid-1950’s (The awakening film?)
So, IMHO, much of Freud’s theories are just that, theory NOT law. If it makes sense to you, grand, if not, even better. BUT NOONE anywhere has the right to impose their belief system onto anyone else, if the first session of ‘talking therapy’ seems like bunkum, it probably is.
I’m sorry to have gone on, but you did ask?
END OF RANT
dave
Yes I did ask and I sincerely enjoyed each and every opinion on the matter. I think I might be an interesting study because typically people who know me who think they understand psychology tend to categorize me. I had a prior employer who always made me feel like I was under glass. They (a husband and wife)told me that I was such a strict by the book type A personality. They would watch me to the point of making me neurotic and self conscious that every move I made was being analyzed. They never did understand me and I quit that job pretty quickly. I had that same discussion with my friend I mentioned above. But I think he was off base a little. I looked up “Type A Personality” and my picture wasn’t there!
Knowing that I’m such a strict “Type A” personality, wouldn’t they all quickly realize that analyzing me only makes me crazy and ticks me off?
They should and will now!
U as E mail
I think this helps me understand Jennifer Garner much better. I appreciate you exploring this topic, and I apologize for my long silence. Now, where did I put that strap on…
Yet more proof that men are just jealous of us and that it’s wonderful to be a woman!